[no subject]

[themeletor]

ho-lee. I'm away for 30 hours, and I am so. backlogged.

and I think all I can say right now is...
Pope.

I know it seems ineloquent. harsh, brusque, uncaring, insensitive, possibly even offensive. but... the loss of such a Holy Man is not something I can compute right now. God and the Church and I will confront it later tonight, with a copy of the Bible, the Catechism, and the BCP.


...hum

(comment with anything you're antsy for me to see. the 5madmuses fic is steadily happening, and surprising me at 10 pages and growing.)

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

~Em

I guess I'm the one you're concerned about offending, since I appear to be offended by everything.

But...

this time I'm not. I know that, when you're as far away from someone who dies (geographically, or distance-wise, whichever you prefer), it sometimes doesn't register right away. Especially for someone you don't know personally. You just kinda shrug your shoulders and go on, for the time being. When my grandpa died, I was rather numb for days. I did cry atthe funeral of course, but even now, occasionally, I find myself tearing up. I guess my point here is that grief affects us all in different ways, and if you're not feeling anything right now, that's okay.

I hope your little session with God tonight proves fruitful in the best way possible: with you at peace and with joy in your heart. That's the most anyone can ask for, especially in these turbulent times.

[captain-molly.livejournal.com]

He's not gone yet. He's still clinging to some semblance of life. He's still with us.

[elessil.livejournal.com]

It is terribly shallow, but I thought you'd perhaps be interested (and made jealous) by this.

[drbillbongo.livejournal.com]

the 5madmuses fic is steadily happening, and surprising me at 10 pages and growing.
That's great to read! I'm very interested in the outcome!!

And my (undoubtedly widely disagreed) opinion of the Pope fuss:
I don't wish him dead, but I really can't understand the big fuss.
The pope is nobody special. He has special rights (like being allowed to talk hypocritical and ridiculous nonsense in front of thousands of people - and being listened to and agreed with!) because a good lot of people believe in God. But I pity the Catholic church (and the world, actually) for having a pope who is too old to have any clue of what he's talking about. And male. And living with celibacy. He should actually have no right to talk about abortion and contraception. Or women becoming priests. It's not his domain. That would be the same if Dolly Buster started to talk about politics.

[meletor-et-al.livejournal.com]

It is his domain.

HE'S THE POPE.

Thank you for your opinion, but mine as a Roman Catholic is very different.

[drbillbongo.livejournal.com]

Well, that's true for the women who want to become priests.
But contraception and abortion is definitely not his domain. And it's scary to see people dying all over the world because they don't use contraception - because he tells them it's wrong. That's practically murder.

You don't have to agree with me, of course. Just stating my opinion. :)

[meletor-et-al.livejournal.com]

what's murder is abortion.

[meletor-et-al.livejournal.com]

and it's still his domain, because he's STILL THE POPE.

[drbillbongo.livejournal.com]

Depends on the definition of life. When does it start for you?
But it happens a lot that the mother dies during childbirth and the fact had been known since she got pregnant. An abortion would have at least saved her life.

And are you in a bit of a foul mood today? I hope it's not because of me. I'll talk to you later.

[meletor-et-al.livejournal.com]

conception.

and no; in fact, would you like to read the further I've gotten on the 5madmuses? it'd be lovely if you've got the time...

[drbillbongo.livejournal.com]

So this means he has the right to interfere with other people's lives as he pleases? Discriminating and second-class labelling people because of their sexual orientation? Not knowing anything about the necessity of contraception in the time of HIV and Hepatitis? Uncaring about rape or disability in the next generation? I'm sorry, but him being the pope isn't just the answer to everything.

[drbillbongo.livejournal.com]

Of course - you can e-mail it to me and I'll come online and tell you about it as soon as I've dined. :)

[meletor-et-al.livejournal.com]

if they're Roman Catholic, yes.
he's the head of the Roman Catholic Church.

[meletor-et-al.livejournal.com]

<3.

[drbillbongo.livejournal.com]

I know that, was in there myself. But still, I think it's time for a little update. The world has changed. The Roman Catholic Church can't keep hanging on the traditions of the Middle Age.

And most of all, I think that everyone should have the same rights and be loved, no matter of race, religion or sexual orientation. In fact, I think that's a big flaw in the Christian theory. Love your neighbour, it says, actually. You can't preach love and respect when you're not doing it yourself.

[meletor-et-al.livejournal.com]

the Roman Catholic Church can and will do whatever her Pope directs her to do.

I do have some qualms with the Church, clearly. one would only assume, given my standings. but as of yet I've not seen a reason to cause fight or revolution. I rarely do, and doubt I ever will. the point of any Christianity is peace, though humanity tends to be more divisive. so let the humanity divide, and try for Christian peace. the RC Church is not perfect, but it's the way it is. and there are other religions if RC doesn't suit.

[elizile.livejournal.com]

Clearly you are ignorant and very misguided.

Firstly, to the very end the Pope possessed complete control of his mental faculties. He may have physically feeble, as a result of Parkinson's disease, but he was very strong in mind and spirit.

Secondly, as the head of the Roman Catholic church, it most definitely is his domain, to speak to the faithful about religion and morals. It's his job. And if you don't like it, nobody's forcing you to follow it. The Pope said that Christians "must let their voices be heard while at the same time respecting the beliefs of others, in accordance with the values in which they believe."

Speaking of respect, it appears that you are completely lacking in respect for the dead. What's more, you lack respect for life, something every human has a right to - yes, even unborn children, and disabled/old people.

"Unwanted babies." Why do they occur? Because people are so careless with their sexuality. If they had respect for the sacredness of sex, there would be no need for contraception and abortion.


If you disagree with some of John Paul II's ideals, okay. Have your own views. Explain them. Don't be immature and make rude attacks on someone who was recognized by people of all faiths as a good man, who traveled the world advocating peace.

[drbillbongo.livejournal.com]

Oh, too kind.

Firstly, to the very end the Pope possessed complete control of his mental faculties. He may have physically feeble, as a result of Parkinson's disease, but he was very strong in mind and spirit.
That applies to many people. Many people who have done good deeds for others. But are their funerals broadcasted over the world? And are they prayed for by thousands of people? No, they're not.

Speaking of respect, it appears that you are completely lacking in respect for the dead.
I'm definitely not, I can assure you. I just don't want respect to be biased. Or based on someone's title or religious status. It seems that the Catholic church is not very generous with respect either.

What's more, you lack respect for life, something every human has a right to - yes, even unborn children, and disabled/old people.
I value everyone's life. But to prevent the birth of disabled children, for example, is valuing life as it should be. They won't have a happy life. Maybe they won't even know they're alive. And it's a heavy burden for the parents as well, some won't be able to live with it. As the world is now, with all the difficulties that have not yet been solved by science, it's better to spare a child life as a disabled person.

"Unwanted babies." Why do they occur? Because people are so careless with their sexuality. If they had respect for the sacredness of sex, there would be no need for contraception and abortion.
Tell that the guy who wants to rape you.

I didn't want to sound rude. But I've always stated my opinion shortly and clearly. If I appeared rude to you, I will apologize. But I won't apologize for my opinion.

Cute icon, by the way.

[drbillbongo.livejournal.com]

Forgot something.

Honestly, I don't see how people can value life on the one hand and forbid others to use contraception for medical reasons, e.g. because of aids.

I'm sorry for seeming offensive, but I always tend to take controversial sides. I can understand your grief, so I would not want to go into this any further.

[captain-molly.livejournal.com]

And I wanted to stand up for you for a bit here. I'm dating a Catholic boy, and the Pope means a lot to him, spiritually. The Pope, in my opinion, is a wonderful and good man who has brought God and Christ into the hearts of many people. Even I, though I am a Protestant, feel a holiness about John Paul II. I truly believe that he will be missed— yes, I will miss him.

[elizile.livejournal.com]

I didn't mean to sound preachy, or to completely yotch you out. It's just that I didn't think it a very appropriate time for you to be making those comments.

You're entitled to your opinions, of course. And I can see where you're coming from, on many of these issues.

As you said, there's really no need to go into it any further. I just felt I should say something.

Thanks for understanding.
~Eliz

(P.S. I'm not much of an icon-maker. Glad you like it...)

[(Anonymous)]

~Em

Um, he was a very sharp guy, and his mind was right there with him, even though his body was failing. I'm sorry you can't see that.

How was he a hypocrite? Please tell me.

[drbillbongo.livejournal.com]

I didn't really want to write more about that topic since I can understand your grief, but you asked and I'll answer frankly.

He was undoubtedly a respectable man who has achieved a lot of things in his life. But I don't consider him special or different from any other respectable man, since I don't believe in God.

Except for the fact that I think, as there is in every convinced Christian, there was a hypocrite in him.
The one who preached that live should be valued. The one who preached "love your neighbour".
The one who forbade HIV-infected people the use of contraception. The one who prevented an approach between the Roman Catholic and the Protestant church. The one who railed incessantly against homosexuals.

Principles are not meant to be redefined out of convenience.

[(Anonymous)]

~Em

Um, why are people entitled to contraception and abortions? It's not the baby's fault if you were raped. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but contraceptives don't do anything to help cure HIV. What they do do is prohibit another life from being created, which is kind of the whole point of the sex act. Have you ever watched a person with disabilities develop? I have, and it's fascinating. They do learn, and they do seem to enjoy life. Who are we to say that they shouldn't have the chance to live?

As for homosexuality, I know I'm taking an unpopular stance here, but I do believe it's disordered. For one, the male and female sexual organs were meant to complement each other, and to be blunt, it's kind of like putting two puzzle pieces together. They fit. As far as I know, homosexual sex doesn't achieve the same unity.

To be honest, I'm not in the mood for a brawl (and that goes for anyone who reads this). In fact I'm a bit dizzy right now and I'm not sure why. But I do feel obligated to say what I believe, and I respect your right to say what you believe. Heck, if you really want to believe something, I can't stop you. But just know I'm not looking for a fight, because every fight I have even been in (especially about homosexuality) has ended in all participants feeling ticked off.